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republicans are to blame if we go over the fiscal cliff, six out of ten voters in november said the tax rates should go up, how much longer can he afford to politically keep this pledge and he said look, you heard it there, the rates when we close the revenues, loopholes will go up on the rich people. that still is the mindset. what's interesting, is talking to republicans leaving the house conference gop conference this morning, there is a lot of support for speaker boehner. there aren't cracks like there were during the debt limit where he had a faction that was lining up against him wholeheartedly. even after yesterday we heard all the stuff of fallout from the conservative right against his position, that conference this morning was pretty supportive of speaker boehner and seem to be -- say something we say way too often here in washington, d.c., doubling down on the speaker's approach, at least here in early december. >> everyone seems to be doubling down, luke. i mean the idea that now nobodies's moving at all. i thought it was interesting that boehner is adopting the rhetoric
republicans are to blame if we go over the fiscal cliff, six out of ten voters in november said the tax rates should go up, how much longer can he afford to politically keep this pledge and he said look, you heard it there, the rates when we close the revenues, loopholes will go up on the rich people. that still is the mindset. what's interesting, is talking to republicans leaving the house conference gop conference this morning, there is a lot of support for speaker boehner. there aren't...
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cliff negotiations, immigration reform has become like taxes and spending. do you do it step-by-step, which is what the republicans like, because they'd like to show they are tough on security and there isn't a legal path to citizenship for illegal immigrants, or do you do the whole thing all together? if i were carl rove, which isn't something i imagine myself being often, i would knock on the door of olympia snowe and say what are your lessons for us? >> fun conversation. >> that would actually be a fun conversation. we hope that carl rove, if you're listening, takes that advice. >>> coming to the recent data, planned parenthood provides less than 5% of resources to abortion services, but that's not stopping republicans in their quest to defund the organization entirely. we'll head to the lone star state and take a look at the eye of the storm just ahead. >>> lauren wanted to introduce cabbage to mainstream america. she created mother-in law's kimchi. for more, watch 7:30 on msnbc. we are gathered here today to celebrate the union of tim and laura. it's am
cliff negotiations, immigration reform has become like taxes and spending. do you do it step-by-step, which is what the republicans like, because they'd like to show they are tough on security and there isn't a legal path to citizenship for illegal immigrants, or do you do the whole thing all together? if i were carl rove, which isn't something i imagine myself being often, i would knock on the door of olympia snowe and say what are your lessons for us? >> fun conversation. >> that...
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>> well, just look at speaker boehner's fiscal cliff proposal. three-page letter with three simple bullet points. that's the entire proposal to deal with the fiscal cliff and starts out with the sentence that's remarkable, tamron. first sentence is because the election is a status quo, both sides have to compromise. they didn't see what happened. they just dismissed it as a status quo election and this is not just speaker boehner we eric cantor and paul ryan, kevin mccarthy. the entire house republican leadership signed on to the so-called fiscal cliff proposal letter. they're not serious about negotiating. i don't know the right wing and the tea party of who the republican party is nowadays but it's impossible to have a deal with one side refuses to compromise even after losing. they will not accept their own defeat. >> right. >> and that is the problem. >> a.b. let's play what congressman walter jones had to say on this boehner purge. i have the full screen of what he had to say when several members were removed as identified not being team pla
>> well, just look at speaker boehner's fiscal cliff proposal. three-page letter with three simple bullet points. that's the entire proposal to deal with the fiscal cliff and starts out with the sentence that's remarkable, tamron. first sentence is because the election is a status quo, both sides have to compromise. they didn't see what happened. they just dismissed it as a status quo election and this is not just speaker boehner we eric cantor and paul ryan, kevin mccarthy. the entire...
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. >>> tonight, who in america is betting on john boehner in his tax showdown with president obama? exactly no one. not even rush limbaugh. >> i don't think there's a republican alive who could stop what's going to happen. >> with the fiscal cliff just 22 days away. >> we're down to the final three weeks. >> the president is on the move. >> i'm willing to compromise a little bit. >> president obama on the ground in michigan. >> i will work with republicans. >> delivering a speech at an engine manufacturing plant. >> i'm willing to compromise a little bit. >> i'm willing to compromise a little bit. >> they are ready to make a deal. >> they are ready to make a deal on tax rates. >> republicans know that they have to give on taxes. >> i don't think there's a republican alive who can stop what is happening. >> senator corker has nailed this one. >> the leverage is going to shift. >> you have to have leverage. >> we don't have the leverage. the power isn't there. >> could a secret meeting seal the deal when it come to the fiscal cliff? the white house says it can happen. >> president oba
. >>> tonight, who in america is betting on john boehner in his tax showdown with president obama? exactly no one. not even rush limbaugh. >> i don't think there's a republican alive who could stop what's going to happen. >> with the fiscal cliff just 22 days away. >> we're down to the final three weeks. >> the president is on the move. >> i'm willing to compromise a little bit. >> president obama on the ground in michigan. >> i will work with...
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it's possible to avert the so-called fiscal cliff. every day that goes by it's harder and harder to have a wide-ranging deal that would deal with a ton of these different intricate details as tax reform and entitlement cuts. one thing before i go, i'll just tell you, you guys, i think the debt limit is really going to play into this because the republicans see that as really their only negotiating chip they have here. if president obama wants to avoid a debt limit fight, he is going to have to give a lot on entitlements, and that's where i think the fight is going to become -- the tax issue is obviously still there, but they want to see in exchange for higher tax rates, some sort of entitlement cuts, and they'll try to use the debt limit as that bargaining chip. what does that mean for the economy? this is long away from a over. >> luke, really quickly, do republicans really feel that putting forward entitlement cuts will make them more popular with the american people? do they think having this fight is a good idea politically? >> if
it's possible to avert the so-called fiscal cliff. every day that goes by it's harder and harder to have a wide-ranging deal that would deal with a ton of these different intricate details as tax reform and entitlement cuts. one thing before i go, i'll just tell you, you guys, i think the debt limit is really going to play into this because the republicans see that as really their only negotiating chip they have here. if president obama wants to avoid a debt limit fight, he is going to have to...
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no ifs, ands or buts on that specific aspect of the fiscal cliff. >> with respect to the tax rates, i want to emphasize, i am open to new ideas. i'm not going to slam the door in their face. i want to hear -- i want to hear ideas from everybody. >> that's not a no. here is the treasury secretary timothy geithner. >> there's no agreement that doesn't involve the rates going up on the top 2%. >> not necessarily going up to the clinton era rates. just going up. today at a press conference at the capital, bain got a question about this. listen carefully to how he responded or didn't respond. >> you did speak with the president earlier this week. can you characterize this call? and also we understand that he just is making clear that it's got to be increasing rates for the wealthy or no deal. are you willing to give a little bit? maybe just not all the way to 39.6? >> the phone call was pleasant, but just more of the same. the conversations that the staff had yesterday, just more of the same. it's time for the president, if east serious, to come back to us with a counteroffer. >> not a no
no ifs, ands or buts on that specific aspect of the fiscal cliff. >> with respect to the tax rates, i want to emphasize, i am open to new ideas. i'm not going to slam the door in their face. i want to hear -- i want to hear ideas from everybody. >> that's not a no. here is the treasury secretary timothy geithner. >> there's no agreement that doesn't involve the rates going up on the top 2%. >> not necessarily going up to the clinton era rates. just going up. today at a...
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fiscal cliff. >> back and forth of offers. it's pretty clear the republicans aren't going to come to the table with anything reasonable. i'll be the one to say it, i know it will be disastrous and doom our economy for years to come, let's go over the [ bleep ] cliff. fine. just leave the negotiating tables and send us over the cliff. you know why? at least for a few seconds, it will feel like we're flying. >> all right. that's going to wrap things up for me today. thanks for your time. see you back here tomorrow at 11:00 eastern. joining me republican congresswoman diane black, atlanta mayor reid and on the power panel "time" magazine's karen tum multi. karen finney and republican strategist robert trainham. "now" with alex wagner is coming up. >> we have a spicy enchilada today. lawmakers are channeling their inner publicists in the fiscal cliff negotiations. that pr aside, are we any closer to common ground? and it if all this sounds familiar, it is. we will talk deal making and deja vu with ben jaman wallace walls, and the
fiscal cliff. >> back and forth of offers. it's pretty clear the republicans aren't going to come to the table with anything reasonable. i'll be the one to say it, i know it will be disastrous and doom our economy for years to come, let's go over the [ bleep ] cliff. fine. just leave the negotiating tables and send us over the cliff. you know why? at least for a few seconds, it will feel like we're flying. >> all right. that's going to wrap things up for me today. thanks for your...
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but you can see the pieces coming together, as you laid out, on the fiscal cliff. some increase in marginal tax rates coupled with some kind of cutting back on tax expenditures. the real concern is shifting or will shift from the fiscal cliff to the debt limit. it's not at all clear that the republicans will agree to including a debt limit increase in that kind of package. if they don't, we may get past december 31st only to find ourselves with a big problem in february or march. >> the obama administration, the white house has been very clear, they will not sign anything, even to get past december 31st. that doesn't include a debt ceiling of some sort. so do you think they can hold firm on that if republicans offer them a package that doesn't include the debt ceiling? >> this is where i think the tension is now arising, which is even if you have some agreement over the tax rates which will jam the republicans a bit, can you jam them on the debt limit also. i think the concern will be an administration overstepping or overreaching and trying to jam a debt limit inc
but you can see the pieces coming together, as you laid out, on the fiscal cliff. some increase in marginal tax rates coupled with some kind of cutting back on tax expenditures. the real concern is shifting or will shift from the fiscal cliff to the debt limit. it's not at all clear that the republicans will agree to including a debt limit increase in that kind of package. if they don't, we may get past december 31st only to find ourselves with a big problem in february or march. >> the...
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. >>> our country will be heading over the fiscal cliff that we ourselves dug and put in our way. it's the set of automatic spending cuts and tax hikes that can only be averted if our nation's leaders are able to display bear bones competence and middle school-level maturity. so is there a deal? >> there's, of course, no deal. >> of course! is there a prospect for a deal? >> there's not a prospect for a deal. >> of course! but the ongoing talks. >> there aren't even very many talks going on. >> you're killing us! give us something. >> but for the first time, there are numbers on pieces of paper from both sides. >> numbers on paper! >>> good morning. it's wednesday, december 5th. welcome to "morning joe." live in the nation's capital. this is exciting. and you know, i said, let's do a show from washington, d.c., because they get so much stuff done there. it's like silicon valley. and going there when steve jobs was really bringing apple to the forefront -- >> a happening place. >> it is. it's where things happen. that's why we're here, steve rattner. >> washington is the place. wit
. >>> our country will be heading over the fiscal cliff that we ourselves dug and put in our way. it's the set of automatic spending cuts and tax hikes that can only be averted if our nation's leaders are able to display bear bones competence and middle school-level maturity. so is there a deal? >> there's, of course, no deal. >> of course! is there a prospect for a deal? >> there's not a prospect for a deal. >> of course! but the ongoing talks. >> there...
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the thing that's depressing about the fiscal cliff plan, we will change the tax code, change this, a tax on gas to help the energy industry, all this stuff has receded into the mist and all we're trying to do is get a deal and be done with this. it is sad. in the beginning of a second term, you should be trying to do big things. >> politics often gets in the way. these guys agree behind closed doors what should be done but nobody wants to step out on the ledge and say it publicly. >> right. you have a polarized congress. at this point, both sides think the other side is not on the level and they're interested in taking the partisan political position than accomplishing a bipartisan result. the good thing is high skilled immigrants. hard not to find someone on both sides that don't think you should allow folks that have expertise in science and technology into the country. instead of doing it, both sides use it as a lever in the immigration debate and keeps getting spooled up inside that debate and nothing gets done. >> haven't the republicans been passing it through the house and dem
the thing that's depressing about the fiscal cliff plan, we will change the tax code, change this, a tax on gas to help the energy industry, all this stuff has receded into the mist and all we're trying to do is get a deal and be done with this. it is sad. in the beginning of a second term, you should be trying to do big things. >> politics often gets in the way. these guys agree behind closed doors what should be done but nobody wants to step out on the ledge and say it publicly....
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this as timothy geithner says the obama administration is willing to go over the fiscal cliff. nbc's tracie potts joins us live from washington with an update. good morning to you. >> reporter: let's start with geithner. he told cnbc that instead of continuing tax breaks for the wealthy, the obama administration is willing to go over this cliff which means they're willing to let your taxes go up and unemployment checks go away massive spending cuts happen if the pentagon instead of continuing the tax breaks for the wealthy. now there's been very little progress here on chiapitol hill which is why so many have gone home. we know that president obama and john boehner spoke by phone. republican sources telling us they had a conversation yesterday. we don't have a readout on what that was about. we don't know that if any meetings have been scheduled. but any small sign of progress is welcome here on capitol hill. now with so many lawmakers headed home and likely to face the ire of their constituents, we saw one protester in baltimore yesterday over social security. there are a few
this as timothy geithner says the obama administration is willing to go over the fiscal cliff. nbc's tracie potts joins us live from washington with an update. good morning to you. >> reporter: let's start with geithner. he told cnbc that instead of continuing tax breaks for the wealthy, the obama administration is willing to go over this cliff which means they're willing to let your taxes go up and unemployment checks go away massive spending cuts happen if the pentagon instead of...
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it's less a fiscal cliff than it is a slide or an incline plane or whatever. but i think that, you know, soon after the 1st, if we haven't done it by then when all the tax rates go and all the changes happen, we get serious and something happens, and i think speaker boehner will be part of it. that's why i'm generally optimistic within the next month if not within the next few weeks. >> i hope so. senator sherrod brown, thank you so much. nice to have you here, your wife as well. >>> coming up next, david shweikert is among a handful of conservatives demanding an explanation after being removed from their committee assignments. he'll join us next right here on "morning joe." meet the 5-passenger ford c-max hybrid. when you're carrying a lot of weight, c-max has a nice little trait, you see, c-max helps you load your freight, with its foot-activated lift gate. but that's not all you'll see, cause c-max also beats prius v, with better mpg. say hi to the all-new 47 combined mpg c-max hybrid. to the best vacation sp(all) the gulf! it doesn't matter which of our gr
it's less a fiscal cliff than it is a slide or an incline plane or whatever. but i think that, you know, soon after the 1st, if we haven't done it by then when all the tax rates go and all the changes happen, we get serious and something happens, and i think speaker boehner will be part of it. that's why i'm generally optimistic within the next month if not within the next few weeks. >> i hope so. senator sherrod brown, thank you so much. nice to have you here, your wife as well....
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whether it's gay marriage, whether it's more salient right as the fiscal cliff where they're talking about digging their heels in to protect the one percent? their brand now is defending tax cuts for the top, very top, of our country. and, also, digging our heels in on things like gay marriage where people are now moving to the left. or on comprehensive immigration reform. or even on things like birth control that 99% of the electorate have used. it doesn't really matter what issue you're looking at. republicans are finding themselves being pulled far to the right. and part of that is whether you have folks who may challenge speaker boehner for the speakership. you also have folks that are going to primary around the country. >> let me ask this before i come out of time. one of the rising stars at the republican convention and being tallied for 2016 is chris christie, governor of new jersey. he sat down with barbara walters who began asking the hard questions he may face in 2016. listen to this. >> there are people who say that you couldn't be president because you're so heavy. what
whether it's gay marriage, whether it's more salient right as the fiscal cliff where they're talking about digging their heels in to protect the one percent? their brand now is defending tax cuts for the top, very top, of our country. and, also, digging our heels in on things like gay marriage where people are now moving to the left. or on comprehensive immigration reform. or even on things like birth control that 99% of the electorate have used. it doesn't really matter what issue you're...
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cliff? >> and on the right, republicans who accused the president of wanting to take the plunge in order to achieve his objective number one. >> he'll probably eventually get his tax increases one way or another. he's going to get his wish. i believe we'll be raising taxes not just on the top earner. everyone is going to pay taxes next year in this country and i think that's what the president wants. >> and the center in the balance. the american economy, fed chair ben bernanke warning that the stalemate over the cliff is already inflicting damage. >> it's already affecting business investment and hiring decisions by creating uncertainty or creating pessimism. >> with taxes poised to go up for everyone. our new nbc news/"wall street journal" poll saying increasing fed up, the majority of voters from both parties want washington to make it happen. joining me is south carolina congressman james clyburn. sir, good to have you here. we just heard nancy pelosi calls on congress not to leave the h
cliff? >> and on the right, republicans who accused the president of wanting to take the plunge in order to achieve his objective number one. >> he'll probably eventually get his tax increases one way or another. he's going to get his wish. i believe we'll be raising taxes not just on the top earner. everyone is going to pay taxes next year in this country and i think that's what the president wants. >> and the center in the balance. the american economy, fed chair ben...
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not agree to that, is the administration prepared to go over the fiscal cliff? >> absolutely. again, there's no prospect to an agreement that doesn't involve those rates going up on the top 2% of the wealthiest. >> and this ongoing political game of chicken is something one of the chairmen of the debt commission simply calls madness. >> when you have leaders of parties and people from the administration saying i think it will be to the advantage of the democrats to go off the cliff or i think it will be advantage to the republicans to go off the cliff or the president to go off the cliff, that's like betting your country. there's stupidity involved in that. >> willing to go over the cliff, i guess they are but they also don't believe republicans are going to go over the cliff. >> he can win politically but the costs, doesn't you agree, would be tremendous not only to him but to the economy and to our country. >> and we want to bring in and say good morning to congresswoman diane black, a republican from tennessee, a member of the house budget and ways and means
not agree to that, is the administration prepared to go over the fiscal cliff? >> absolutely. again, there's no prospect to an agreement that doesn't involve those rates going up on the top 2% of the wealthiest. >> and this ongoing political game of chicken is something one of the chairmen of the debt commission simply calls madness. >> when you have leaders of parties and people from the administration saying i think it will be to the advantage of the democrats to go off the...
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how will going over the fiscal cliff affect small businesses? i believe that being able to have a fairer tax rate will benefit small businesses because small businesses will be able to make sure that they are paying a fairer tax rate as what happened in the clinton tax years when we had an economic boom. >> congresswoman, we hear all the time certainly from the republicans arguments against president obama's plan is the $250,000 tax hike threshold could hurt small businesses. we hear that from all people who come on to talk about why they are opposed to it from the right wing that small business owners are going to be the ones hurt by this, the job creators. when we talk about them filing taxes as individuals and the real ones out there, what is your response to that? >> well, look. the people who lost this election are holding out for the top 2% and the people who won this election are fighting for the 98%. that is a vast majority of americans including small businesses. i think that a fairer tax rate could only benefit them. >> this is interes
how will going over the fiscal cliff affect small businesses? i believe that being able to have a fairer tax rate will benefit small businesses because small businesses will be able to make sure that they are paying a fairer tax rate as what happened in the clinton tax years when we had an economic boom. >> congresswoman, we hear all the time certainly from the republicans arguments against president obama's plan is the $250,000 tax hike threshold could hurt small businesses. we hear that...
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in terms of the fiscal cliff, higher taxes on everybody. one thing that will happen without an agreement, all the bush tax rates go away, so everyone's taxes are going to go up. you'll see that emphasized over the next couple weeks. you'll hear the white house talk about what a bad situation there will be after january 1 if this deal is not cut. >> david jackson, "usa today," shira toeplitz, "roll call." we appreciate your time so much we'll talk to you later in the hour as well. >> thank you. >>> the last remaining house race of the 2012 election cycle is pabt to come to a close. in louisiana, republican congressman charles boustany jr., jeff landry facing off in a runoff election. they were forced to run in the same district in bayou because of the state's shrinking congressional delegation. both conservative republicans, landry a tea party freshman. we'll keep you abreast of what happens. >>> meanwhile, high drama about to surround the high court as the justices agree to take on the high-stakes issue of same-sex marriage. ♪ >>> the man
in terms of the fiscal cliff, higher taxes on everybody. one thing that will happen without an agreement, all the bush tax rates go away, so everyone's taxes are going to go up. you'll see that emphasized over the next couple weeks. you'll hear the white house talk about what a bad situation there will be after january 1 if this deal is not cut. >> david jackson, "usa today," shira toeplitz, "roll call." we appreciate your time so much we'll talk to you later in the...
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immigration and tax reform post the fiscal cliff will create a legacy and may see congress doing something. >> that is why it is so important that they figure out a way to come together before the end of the year hopefully. if the environment is poisoned like it was after the stimulus, after the health care debate, the next four years will be ugh low. >> that's true. the higher number of women increases the chances. we will see. >> i saw the women here smiling. we were talking about how collaborative they were. the guys, not so much. >> we don't smile. i agree. the more women the better. i'm agreeing with you. can i say nothing? i said the more women, the better. i'm agreeing with you. the more women, the less self destructive egos and getting to a deal. do you have a problem with that. >> no,i don't. >> go with it. i give up. >> all right. still ahead, hollywood mogul joins us on set and author sebastian younger will be here. more morning joe in a moment. ♪ for over 40 years, we've brought our passion for fine coffee and espresso to people everywhere. but one place was impossible, until
immigration and tax reform post the fiscal cliff will create a legacy and may see congress doing something. >> that is why it is so important that they figure out a way to come together before the end of the year hopefully. if the environment is poisoned like it was after the stimulus, after the health care debate, the next four years will be ugh low. >> that's true. the higher number of women increases the chances. we will see. >> i saw the women here smiling. we were talking...
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prepared to go over the fiscal cliff? >> oh, absolutely. again, there's no prospect to an agreement that doesn't involve those rates going up on the top 2% of the wealthiest americans -- remember, it's only 2%. the size of the problem in some sense is so large, it can't be solved without rates going up as part of that. again, i think there's broad recognition of that reality now. >> one fallback option republicans are reportedly considering is to accept tax cuts for the middle class, allow rates to go up for the wealthiest, and then start the fight over again during debt limit talks early next year. yesterday at a business roundtable of ceos, president obama took a hard line, warning his opponents not to consider this strategy. >> if congress in any way suggests that they're going to tie negotiations to dell creting votes and take us to the brink of default once again as part of a budget negotiation, which, by the way, we have never done in our history until we did it last year, i will not play that game. >> well, i wonde
prepared to go over the fiscal cliff? >> oh, absolutely. again, there's no prospect to an agreement that doesn't involve those rates going up on the top 2% of the wealthiest americans -- remember, it's only 2%. the size of the problem in some sense is so large, it can't be solved without rates going up as part of that. again, i think there's broad recognition of that reality now. >> one fallback option republicans are reportedly considering is to accept tax cuts for the middle...
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cliff. one thing we could probably agree with here, the american people would love to see a deal before new year's day. that's according to a new nbc/"wall street journal" poll. in fact, a majority of both democrats and republicans say they would like their leaders to compromise even if it means giving ground on long-held party positions. >> wow, look at that. >> so you know, at this point, what does anybody have to lose but to come together and make a deal? expectations are in check with respondents equally divided, 48%-48% on whether a deal will actually get done. if there's no agreement, 56% say both sides will be to blame. 24% say it will be the republicans' fault, while 19% will point the finger at president obama. >> again, let's stop and freeze on that number again. this is a number that is borne not out of what's been happening over the past couple weeks but what's been happening over the past couple years. the republicans have damaged their brand in such a way that the benefit of th
cliff. one thing we could probably agree with here, the american people would love to see a deal before new year's day. that's according to a new nbc/"wall street journal" poll. in fact, a majority of both democrats and republicans say they would like their leaders to compromise even if it means giving ground on long-held party positions. >> wow, look at that. >> so you know, at this point, what does anybody have to lose but to come together and make a deal? expectations...